Welcome back to the Create More Possibilities blog! My name’s Petra and I’m a Liberatory Leadership Coach, Facilitator, Radical Social Worker and Emergent Strategist. I help marginalized leaders cultivate liberatory power so they can show up powerfully and fully to make deeper impact.

This transcription is from an IG Live about Liberatory Leadership between myself, Petra Vega of Create More Possibilities and Jennifer Nagel.

Jennifer is the Founder of Success Revolution Society where she helps women online entrepreneurs create connections that explode their business. She is the Connection Queen, Online Business Strategist and phenomenal human who cares deeply about building authentic connections.

If you have any questions or comments about this transcription or the contents of this conversation, feel free to reach out. 

Rather watch the video? Check it out on Instagram.

Don’t have Instagram? I’ve added the video at the end of the transcription.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, Petra, revolution, leadership, folks, married, piece, skills, talking, entrepreneurs, care, leaders, relationship, practice, workbook, work, fun, important, success, patriarchy

SPEAKERS
Jennifer Nagel, Petra Vega

Jennifer Nagel 00:01
Hey, Instagram, everybody says that I am live right now. Which is great. I’m excited to see you. I am now working on adding in Petra. There’s got to be a better way to do this writing hard at the camera. All right, great. Hello. Hello. How are you?

Petra Vega 00:26
I’m good. How are you? Good. 

Jennifer Nagel 00:30

I’m so happy to see people joining.

Petra Vega 00:31
Yeah. Hi, people.

Jennifer Nagel 00:32
Hi, people. I’m so excited to have this conversation with you on Instagram so people can see how we actually interact because just if you guys don’t know, this is Petra Vega. And I’m Jennifer Nagel, which, oh, actually, if your audience is saying that they may not know me. I’m Jennifer Nagel, and I am the founder of success revolution society. And I met Petra. Okay. Okay, I met Petra, because you introduce yourself and another group, and then talk about what you did. And I’ll be honest, when I heard what you did, I’m like, I have no effing clue with this. Cool, so I stalked your Instagram. And we chatted back and forth. And then I knew you love dogs. So therefore, we had to be best friends that we talked and we talked about hair and oppression. And it was such a great conversation that I asked you to be one of our inner revolution speakers this month, or success revolution society. So if you’re not familiar with you’re watching success revolution, society is a mastermind community that I host for females fans and them’s in the online space, we’re really focused on building genuine relationships to help build fun and profitable businesses. And every month, what we do is we bring in an expert on personal development, because that’s a one thing that we all could use work on. So partners this month speaker and I wanted to just have a great conversation. So first, welcome. Let me stop talking.

Petra Vega 02:11
Thank you, thank you.

Jennifer Nagel 02:13
I could read your bio. I hate doing that, though. Like on a newscasters. So instead, tell people about what you do with create more possibilities.

Petra Vega 02:24
Yeah, so I am the liberatory leadership coaches, let’s hear more about what that means. And I’m really trying to support marginalized leaders. So folks that are black and brown, queer neurodivergent folks really cultivate liberatory power, right that I held a series last month around, like, what does power mean? What gets in the way? How do we access it? What’s the time that we can describe when we’ve been in our power? And what are the different types of power in that kind of way? Because I think that if we were to talk about power in a particular type of way that it was more of a place of liberation and freedom than around control or exclusion, that we may have seen some leaders acting out. I just think about like, what, what could the possibility of that be right, which also inspired the name of my business, right? Just like create more possibilities, but I’m just like, what else? What else could happen? If something shifted? What else can happen if we were more authentic? What can happen if we actually got deeper and trust with particular people or what the people around us? Like? What what could just be possible? And I’m just like, so curious around that.

Jennifer Nagel 03:23
I love it. Okay, so I’m gonna back up because I know for me, and also some of the people who are watching. I really just admit ignorance here. Because when we. When I first heard the term liberatory leadership, I was like, This sounds cool. It sounds kind of something like I’m into, because I’m all about stuff. Okay, like, tell us like, fifth grade words. Leadership, why do we care about something like that? As entrepreneurs as professionals? Why? Why do we even care?

Petra Vega 04:20
Yeah, beautiful. So I was actually going to start in this place, because I want I’m always someone that I’m like, what do we mean by particular words, because I think that we can lose each other that kind of way that we’re like, people just know this thing until I was actually talking to someone that you match make me with, right? And we were talking about liberatory leadership, and I’m like, and she was telling me she was like, liberatory, is that a word? I should know. And I’m like, oh, anytime that should is in the game, and I’m like, we need to dispel some of that stuff. And so I just want to share that like the mainstream definition, and then I could kind of break that down a little bit around liberatory or liberation is the act of setting someone free from imprisonment or slavery or oppression. And the part that I really liked that I feel is most a tangible or people can get on is really limited from thoughts on the end behavior. So like, what what would it? What would your life look like if you didn’t set a limit, or if there wasn’t a limit present, that’s what liberation is really about. Right? And then the leadership part, that was the one that I had the most fun kind of redefining for myself, which I’m like, that’s the thing that we get to do as entrepreneurs is that we like, be like, I’m a matchmaker now. I get to name or hold it, or maybe someone else might be naming these things. And so I’ve always had like comments and admiration around my leadership. But I’ve never thought about like, but how would I describe it? What would I say are the skills and the pieces that are really important to it? And so when I was looking at, like, what are the common ways people describe leadership, a lot of it was tied to title, or someone else gave you kind of that power, or it meant that there are particular myths that I did some dispelling around, that you had to believe or had to do in order to be a leader. And I’m like, again, that’s like really centered on exclusion. And I’m not about that. And so the way that I kind of thought about, like, what’s been my experience with someone who’s been in community organizing, and social work, and nonprofits and a lot of social change places, and what I came up with is that leadership is really the process of being responsible for right so that there’s a group of people that you’re that are kind of receiving the impact of whatever you’re doing, and being responsive to that to self and others, right. So that there’s this relationship piece, right? And not that you were just like, out here wielding power or doing whatever you want, without any responsibility, or really looking at like, how are people receiving that? Right? And I think that’s really the piece. It’s around like, what what are the relationships? It really comes back to with the work that you’re doing? Right that what are the kinds of relations that we’re having? And again, how are being being responsible for the kinds of that we’re having and responsible? We’re like, Oh, this isn’t working, or I’m like, you’re feeling kind of way, I feel like kind of way. And I’m interested in like, what, what are those skills? What’s that knowing what are those practices that we need, so that we continue to hold on to each other, particularly if you like, you find good people, right? people that care about some stuff? How do we not just let that go so easily?

Jennifer Nagel 07:01
Yeah, no, I that’s powerful, and it’s deep. So here’s one of the things we talked about when we talked on the phone, you know, we’re really talking. This is a public face. No, I’m kidding. He’s the same face. It’s always been interesting to me, because you and I, people of color, were totally into this, because we understand the impact of when this doesn’t happen. But what about the people who are like, you know, less, woke, understanding, understanding people who don’t see this? Like, what would you say to them as to why it’s important for them to develop these types of skills?

Petra Vega 07:44
Yeah. So I think the the piece that comes to mind for me is that oppression hurts all of us, right? Like white supremacy, sexism, heterosexism, it hurts all of us, right? In the same way as that, like, we you and I talk a lot about hair, because I think it was right after you posted. Around, right. So something that I kind of carried on because of like white supremacy in my own Latinx culture that can be very anti Black was just like a lot of mess around my hair and whether it was beautiful, okay, or like, particularly if we were looking at professional spaces, but does it need to look like so that people take you serious? Like, that hurts everyone, right? That if there’s like any kind of expectation around something as like, complex as here, then like, that hurts everyone, whether or not you have kinky hair, or curly hair or frazzled hair, but it’s just like, again, it’s the limits piece, right? That’s like, if there’s any limit or expectation, then it requires exclusion in that kind of way. And so I think for folks who may not, I don’t know that they will be looking at us, I don’t mean that first. Understand it, they’re probably not here, but maybe someone’s like, you need to go look at this thing, then I would just offer what are the ways that it hurts you to write that it harms you that it limits you that it stops and prevents you because the thing that I’ve heard from folks who may have like, more privilege, or don’t have as much practice and like disrupting or challenging stuff, they’re like, I wish I could do that. And I’m like, and you can, you can write but it’s like, how do you know how right like, I think that’s where I come in, and I’m like, there’s a way

Jennifer Nagel 09:16
ya know, and that’s perfect, because I was gonna ask you, like, what are the things like, what are the action steps? And what are people currently doing? That’s really great. And what are some of the things that we’re doing that are really not helping this whole liberatory leadership? How are we, you know, shooting ourselves in

Petra Vega 09:34
the foot? Yeah. And so I like I like to do things in threes. So like, when you asked this question, I was okay, were three things here my like go twos. And so I think it’ll kind of answer both of those questions. And so I had one of my supervisors and so my work comes from like having some real shitty like targeted gaslighting traumatizing leaders. So that’s part of it, and I’m like, what are the stuff that showed up there and leadership? Who’s gonna second for people who are watching?

Jennifer Nagel 10:03
I know many of us have had, because I know some of you in here. And I want you to comment if you have had one of those types of experiences in the workplace, or, in many of us are entrepreneurs who are watching this, but even as entrepreneurs, and many of us are entrepreneurs, because we don’t want to be part of that culture, but even in the entrepreneur space, you still have that. So if you feel comfortable and want to share an experience, or raise your hand or something like that, just say, yes, I’ve experienced this also what Petra is talking about in the workplace, and, and, and or in the entrepreneur space, because I want people to understand like, this is not just like, one or two people had a bad thing, or they had a bad attitude. And they experiences this is common. This is like every day. So I’m sorry, I don’t mean to interrupt, but go.

Petra Vega 10:53
With filter, I’m all about like airing out the junk, right? So wanting to name but like, it wasn’t just like, oh, I had great leadership, or like all of the things that I did, right worked and like not all of them, which is why I can also be like, I don’t know about that right? Kind of gut check. And I can share my experience and seeing other people experiment to try things out that I’ll be like, in this scenario. In this context, it didn’t work out that well, right, or like, but it might be different. So thank you for asking me to pause and ask some quotes to kind of think about that, because that’s really like one piece of where my work is coming from. But also seeing like, what is the leadership potential, and all of us is also where my work comes from. So I had one supervisor in particular, who was really helping me understand around capacity building this group of folks that I was working with in a school. And one thing that he told me that it’s either like, its a skill or will issue right, if people are not doing quote unquote, that thing. It’s either the will, they don’t give a damn right. So I think that’s one that’s like, do we do we care, right? Or is it like, it sounds nice to say that we care or like other people tell us it’s the right thing for our marketing to bring it into the entrepreneur? Like, is it? Is it cute to care about particular things now? That’s a it’s a, it’s a Willis shit. I’m like, we want you to gut check, I will. But the thing that I really want to support folks is around this skill, right? That I think it’s very different from saying that, like, black lives matter, and like that is a beautiful sentiment, but like, what does that look like into your practice and your operations and your messaging? How you treat people is the big one for me, and like, how does that translate in how you treat people? And not just black folks, but like, all folks, right? That’s really what that is, is intending was like, if we can have the most freedom for folks that are like most marginalized, and we all get some, right. And that’s the reverse. Right? I think that that piece is a big one, or and so I’ve called that are evolving skills, right? Like, what are the skills that we can use so that we don’t get stuck, right, that maybe someone causes out or causes food? Or we might have a moment like you shared, you’re like, oh, what this thing is, right. And so, but the thing I want to acknowledge, right that that your response to that was curiosity, right? Versus that it may be and I don’t want to shader anyone, right, but it could be like, I don’t know about this thing, but like, I care and then we get down a shame spiral. And I’m like, that is also a function of oppression is for us to feel bad. So they were like spending all our time feeling bad, or like, we don’t know that thing. Right? You know, right, we could just go and be in that place. And then when the next thing happens, or someone says the next thing, we feel the next thing, we’re back in that place, right? Because we have a practice of like, I’m just going to shame spiral, but I’m like, what are some other ways? So that’s one of them around like, how do we keep moving? How do we how do we allow to receive like, what’s the data here? Like what’s true about this thing? What’s not true about this thing? It’s also like not everything is true. So that’s that’s my first one. I just want to pause if you wanted to share add anything. Yeah, I do actually there’s

Jennifer Nagel 13:43
some great comments so and mentioned ageism is real so I believe she’s commenting on some of the stuff that maybe she’s seen or experienced. ageism is real even more so for women Wow, that Skill versus Will good stuff treats the coach it’s really great to see and yes, how you treat people matters is where it matters and then star saying Amen. So we’ve got a lot you know, a lot of positive affirmation for the things that that you’re saying and that we’re discussing Skill versus Will is I mean, it’s simple and yet

Petra Vega 14:22
everything I’m like on face value, you’re like I know what that thing is, but I’m like getting in the crevices getting do we it’s probably the first

Jennifer Nagel 14:29
This is probably the first time time crevices has been used on a Live, I think

Petra Vega 14:32
The second one I’m gonna bring it up. Okay. All right. So so my that I would offer is that probably what is not going so well if you are like committed to some stuff you are trying to live in your alignment you want to kind of push the the envelope around what is the norm and whatever your industry your work is, you’re probably doing it alone. And so that is the that’s no bueno right? Because then that’s the that’s the stuff that in my experience was like, that’s the stuff that lead to burnout. We can feel particularly if we look at if our attention is like, who are the folks that are not doing anything like that can like lead to resentment and all that stuff. And so I think about one of the the pieces of my work is really like, how are we moving energy? And how are we making sure that we’re in a process of filling it? Right. So it’s like one which I love that the your piece about your work is like, who are the people around you? And how that’s really, really important, right? That like, as you’re pouring into the future, and you’re pouring into, like, challenging and disrupting? Who are the people that are pouring back into you? Right? What are the practices? Are you walking? I do Taro, right? Are you meditating? Are you journaling? What are the things your inner revolution work? Right? Like? What are the things that you’re doing to keep yourself going as someone who’s like, authentically committed to wanting to see things differently? But I’m like, well, that energy has to be at like, like, number one, probably, I would say, because like, that’s what we lose the toilet paper, like, changes in happening. It’s all for naught. We just went to a protest. And I’m like, the protests, right? But like, how do you protest and continue to do little bits of your own revolution, your change making it your every day? You know, like, how does it what does it look like in your relationships and your house? I’m thinking about my relationship to my cat, right? And I’m like, How do I not have a dominant, domineering relationship with my cat, right? So really, like, how, what’s the through line between everything? And I think is we can think outside of that piece around individualism. And like, I got to do it alone, the easier it’ll be.

Jennifer Nagel 16:29
Yeah. But I’m so glad you said that. Because I feel like this American culture has, yeah, pull yourself up by the bootstraps. And you need to, you know, the rugged individualism and all of that, sorry. Thank you, I love it. But we have this feeling. And I found myself really just in that, you know, deep in that and it took me a long time to realize it’s like, no, this is, first of all, it’s not me. I mean, I could certainly work by myself, I’m not a child, I don’t need supervision. But it’s so much more fun to do my business with friends or to have other people to connect with. And I think collectively, we have a larger impact that way as well. But also the things that we do, can do by our I’m sorry, these comments you guys are every revolution with the five other people in this life. But yeah, the inside stuff like filling ourselves up, and this conversations around self care. And I’m so glad you mentioned cats, because my two little dogs are right here on the chair beside me. And they are like, my emotional support. Family, but friends, but the truth doesn’t happen in isolation community. It’s so true. Because one of the reasons I created success revolution society, it was the thing that I needed, you know, needed the community, I needed the people and I wanted to, you know, I wanted to connect people, I wanted to introduce people to each other, because there’s so many great people who are doing these amazing things really cool, impactful, like, unique, talented people do. And then like we all need to know each other. And my goodness, can you imagine how dangerous we would be if we came together? And you know, whatever it is, we did take down the patriarchy or you know, become millionaires or whatever it is. So I way off topic here. No, no, I’m

Petra Vega 18:38
on topic. I’m with it. Yeah.

Jennifer Nagel 18:40
I’m talking about like, filling yourself up. So outside of business, it was one of the things I think is really important is that we understand though people behind the work. You mentioned your cat, but what are some of the other things that like Petra does, like what do you do to like, have fun, fill your cup? Have a good time?

Petra Vega 19:01
I don’t do nothing. So I’m like, intentionally. I’m like, I want to take naps. I want to lounge. You and I you gave me my catchphrase. And like I need to put this in my marketing. But I’m like, I’m really not trying to leave the house, which is very interesting as someone who’s like, I want to be connected to people and community and in relationship with folks. And as like introvert as a highly sensitive person and who has social anxiety. I want to be left alone. Like that is like the thing that I love. And so if you when I’m not doing some of this work, and I’m not with my partner with my cat, and I’m like, probably watching a dating show, and so I recently did like what we can learn from Married at First Sight around leadership. So I’m always like, there’s so many lessons from everything in the world. And I’m like, girl, do you see the connections and because I’m just like, given all the stuff that we named a little bit around like oppression. I’m like, How are we even in relationship and dating each other and loving up on each other? That I’m like that is a good mirror. Cool. So I’m so curious around like how what’s what’s the mismatch here? What’s not working now? And I’m just like a sucker for love to so like, also like

Jennifer Nagel 20:14
NBN matchmaker. Well, I’m not I’m only through like a few episodes that don’t say anything yet. But yeah, give me a snippet. Married at First Sight insight, because I’m curious if you’re not familiar variable set, Married at First Sight is a reality television show where they take the interview all these people who say they’re serious about wanting to get married and settle down, and they match them, and they only meet each other at the altar when they get married. And then the show follows them for what, like a month, two months, two months, two months, and at the end, they decide Do they stay married? Or do they get divorced? And then they’re like these three guys, at least the last time I watched it. So that’s the show. I’m curious, like, give me one good insight from sorry. Give me one good insight from the blog, and then tell folks where they can read this blog about Married at First Sight and liberty.

Petra Vega 21:11
And so I made two reels. One was about over communicating. So like, one couple was having a fight around the man and the relationship was like I did over communicate, right, which I’m like, is not a word that I normally use. I’m like, what does that mean, right? Versus the woman in the relationship was like, I just need you to give me all of the details. And so I talked about how like, have you had a supervisor who’s like asking a whole bunch of questions, or like says nothing? Or maybe you’re the leader, right? In this scenario? And as the person receiving the questions, you’re like, Where’s this coming from? Or on the opposite? You’re not telling me anything, you’re leaving me in the dark? And then what happens in the darkness? We’re just gonna make up stories, right? And so how do we get really clear about what do we mean around? Like, what do you need to know? What’s important? How do we have active communication ongoing so that when shit does hit the fan, we don’t have to go to the assumptions, right? But we’re like, we already know the background of like, Oh, I know this thing is going on. There’s this project happening. I know your way you are particularly stressed, because we’ve already talked about how you are when you’re stressed. I know this is the stress and not you, and not that I need to go be like, you know, right. So that was one. And then the other one was around stress responses, which I’m just like, there’s a literacy opportunity that I think we have in workplaces, or any one of us that are in working in any kind of ways to have an understanding of trauma and stress responses, that I think we’re like, oh, this person doesn’t give a damn. And I’m like, That person is activated, like they are trying not to pop off, they are trying to like step away, and conserve their job as someone who I’m like, I’m trying to, like communicate to you like red flag, no more of this. But like, if you don’t have that literacy, and that understanding, you’re just gonna be out here, just like pressing people’s buttons. And so that one got like a lot of attention and interest around like, well, what does that look like? Right? I think it’s like, 10. Have I done that? And I’m like, Yep, I have, which is why I’m learning about it. Right. And I’ve been on the other side. And so again, not to this was not a morality issue, or like, do all the right things. And like, we can’t do that, right. But it’s like, are we leading into curiosity? Are we interested in continue to evolve and to learn? Are we willing to be wrong, quote, unquote, and then do better be held accountable? That that’s what the work is really, it’s not going to end? But like, can we have those things in place that keep going so that we can continue to like, reach for each other in those moments?

Jennifer Nagel 23:35
I think what I’m hearing the underlying assumption of all this, whether you’re talking about married, first sight we plays or entrepreneurship is that you just have to care, you have to give a damn, you have to be present. And you know, I always tell people, I am not going to say all the right things, I will not do all the right things. I know there are things that I do that are probably terrible, and I’m sure someone is on their therapist couch, talking about me some way he but at the end of the day, I also know that I do genuinely care. So however, you know, if people were to approach me or if I were to think about it myself, or you know, sometimes it’s just like I just am not aware or I just need you know, a Petra in my life I was gonna say, you know, if you ever need a second career, I think couples therapy

Petra Vega 24:31
for you. about it, I was telling my partner, because we have I’m all about practices, right? And I’m like, what are those everyday things? And so her and I have a practice of like, every few months we check in we’re like, do we still like each other? This thing still working? Am I what can I do better? And it’s like the same way we think about if your quarterly planning that’s the same, it’s a check in you’re like isn’t working? What should I do differently? But I’m like, how do we apply those things that are good in one area? In all of the areas, right, and so we just do like little tune up, right? We get checked out, we’re like, what are we doing? Right? What’s something we need to do different? And so I’m like her and I, we had like, a moment recently, and I was like, we really got to take this thing on the road. So I’m like, Jennifer, I’m gonna do this business. And then I’m gonna do that.

Jennifer Nagel 25:20
I think you’ll have lots of clients either way. So I’m so excited to have this conversation with you. And I just love to give you a taste of what we do inside of success revolution society, you know, Petra is going to dive a lot deeper in with us. So if you are watching or you’re watching later, and your partner suspects revolution says that success revolution society, you’re getting a little preview right now, as you can see, all of our inner revolution speakers are just off the charts smart, talented, and have really unique perspectives. So we have a lot of opportunity inside the group to explore a lot of things that we need to do as leaders as women as people, because those are the types of things I think that hold us back in business and entrepreneurship. Yes, we do some fun mixers and workshops that have more like advanced business topics, but inside the group, we all universally agree that just being a more thoughtful, conscientious human, it’s so important to just our own personal happiness and also our success. So I want to thank you so much for doing this live video. You didn’t have to do it, but it was a lot of fun. We talked about crevasses. married

Petra Vega 26:37
put that in the captions, it’d be like What the fuck?

Jennifer Nagel 26:39
The patriarchy? Yeah, who cares? I love it. Cats and dogs. No. But honestly, I was really grateful to have this conversation with you and said, This is great. Glad I joined today have to go thank you both. There’s just been a catcher’s amazing. You’ll have lots of clients, star, healthy perspective. Someone’s on their therapist couch talking about me.

Petra Vega 27:01
humbling. Yeah, humbling. Yeah,

Jennifer Nagel 27:04
it helps put it all in perspective, right? Because we’re always the heroes in the story. And sometimes we are. So yeah, I’m so excited. People learn from you find out more about you. If they want to contact you get in touch and learn more about liberatory leadership. Yeah,

Petra Vega 27:23
I think if people want to get started, I would point folks to I have a daily practice workbook. And so if any of the tidbits and questions were like, ooh, that got me some bubbling in my heart, on my mind and my body. I’m like, there’s lots of tidbits and more things to kind of reflect on if you really want to show up in a way that is intentional, sustainable, and really congruent with the world that you’d like to see. Grab my workbook, and if you can’t find it, the link is in my bio, but if not, just DM me the word workbook and then I’ll send it over to you.

Jennifer Nagel 27:50
That’s right. And she’s at create more possibilities on Instagram. And if you want to see Petra hang out with Petra and all of our other amazing speakers every month along with our community which is growing I’m just so I love our community so much you have no idea. It’s not it’s not your mama’s mastermind community program we do things a little bit different in success revolution society, and you can go to the link in my bio at the real Jennifer unable to check that out. If you’re curious or join my newsletter, whatever you want to do just get in there some sort of way and you’ll learn about success revolution society, but Petra, thanks so much. We always have interviews. I was like, what was she what she was doing with her hair today? Because you know, I was a little different.

Petra Vega 28:35
No, I thought we was up to date

Jennifer Nagel 28:41
all right. It’s been a pleasure as always and thanks everybody for watching. Whether you’re watching live or you’re watching replay later

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